Not sure what to do.

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tipler

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Re: Not sure what to do.
« Reply #30 on: January 18, 2014, 05:48:48 PM »
Hi Jules123 ,

Usually trustees have your best interest at heart. When I was in your shoes trustee gave me two options: CP or Bankruptcy.  I chose CP and having gone through that experience I wish I chose bankruptcy.  As one of the posters on this board indicated it stays slightly longer on your record than CP (only by a 1 year and a bit) but here are things to consider:
1) What if you loose your job again in the next five years while in CP. Will you be able to make those payments?
2) What if the interest rates go up and housing market deteriorates? 

In my opinion it is easier sometimes to start from 0. Think about those two questions and keep us posted.

Take care





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jules123

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Re: Not sure what to do.
« Reply #31 on: January 19, 2014, 10:53:31 AM »
Hi Tipler,

Thanks for your response and advice.  I know what you mean, what if I lose my job again.  I worry about that, but I really don't want to lose my home.  I have fixed it up so nicely and I am now renting out the basement apartment and one room upstairs, so my contribution to the mortgage is $715.00 including the mortgage insurance and my taxes.  Where in the world am I going to find an apartment for that amount? 
I went looking yesterday to see some apartments and holes where more than $715.00!!!  I can't see myself living in a dump.  I just don't know why the bank would not work with me on this, I hope they do.  Do they really want a house and all the rest of the debts on their hands?  I am so nervous about this and I know what will be will be, but I just don't know what I am going to do if I lose my home.  Also I have 2 dogs and 2 cats that are my family and I would not ever think of living without them.  Its a real mess!   Hopefully things will work out with the bank.  I will let you know when I find out.  The trustee told me that he would know within 2 weeks, even though legally they have to wait 45 days. 

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tipler

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Re: Not sure what to do.
« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2014, 10:20:08 PM »
Hi Jules123,

First of all I understand that to find place for $715 that you actually like is not easy and leaving what you fixed up and got attached to is even harder. Your trustee is probably right as within a week my accounts in CP were being closed.
Scotia your biggest creditor has the big majority vote.  I can think of only one reason why they wouldn't wanna work with you and that answer is : CMHC  -  these guys cover any losses on the mortgage vs what the house is recovered for.
Most likely bank made you get insurance through Canada Mortgage Housing Corporation as they do to anyone with less than 20% downpayment.  I live in BC and province to province laws differ but my trustee had added all the counseling session costs and administrative costs to the whole CP and asked me to bring post dated cheques for each month. There was no money paid upfront.  Hope it helps, keep your head up and keep us posted.
Take care Jules123

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jules123

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Re: Not sure what to do.
« Reply #33 on: January 21, 2014, 08:42:15 PM »
My home is NOT CMHC insured.  It is my mortgage.

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Stewart

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Re: Not sure what to do.
« Reply #34 on: January 22, 2014, 12:49:05 PM »
My home is NOT CMHC insured.  It is my mortgage.

No, your home wouldn't be secured by CMHC, but if you had less than 20% down and entered into a "high ratio mortgage", the mortgage itself would be both approved and insured by either CMHC or Genworth. That insurance protects the lender in the case of a default / power of sale and ensures they get all their money.

If you put more than 20% down and as a result have that much equity in your home, it's an entirely different situation you're in.

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jules123

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Re: Not sure what to do.
« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2014, 10:16:33 AM »
My home is NOT CMHC insured.  It is my mortgage.

No, your home wouldn't be secured by CMHC, but if you had less than 20% down and entered into a "high ratio mortgage", the mortgage itself would be both approved and insured by either CMHC or Genworth. That insurance protects the lender in the case of a default / power of sale and ensures they get all their money.

If you put more than 20% down and as a result have that much equity in your home, it's an entirely different situation you're in.
   I did put 30% down on the mortgage and it is not CMHC insured.  The problem is the line of credit attached to the mortgage, the home equity loc.  Adding that in, there is little equity in the house.  They opened it up to the value of the house so I had access to 100% value not the 80% that is usually used.  Right now, there is no way the bank would recover these amounts if they took over the house.   I signed the papers for the CP last week, so I now just wait.  My trustee said he should know within 2 weeks, but we still have to wait the full 45 days and then another 21 days.  He said if the bank doesn't agree to put the loc into the CP, then I walk away from the house.  But it will take them 6 months to take possession of the house.  (Quebec).  So that would bring me to September to abandon the house.  I am hoping that my 35 years with the bank and a stellar payment history will pursuade them to work with me on this.  I really hope they do.
Jules

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TreeFrog

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Re: Not sure what to do.
« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2014, 12:05:23 PM »
Hi Jules,

I know how much you don't want to give up your house, and I hope the CP goes through. As you have said, it really would be in the bank's best interests to accept the CP; however, sometimes it's hard to figure out why banks act the way they do.

I has occurred to me that Quebec is one of the provinces where a lender must go through a judicial process to foreclose on a home. This is as opposed to provinces like Ontario, where foreclosure is done by "Power of Sale," the provisions of which are included in the mortgage contract and where the court is hardly involved.

From what I understand, in Quebec the bank must initiate a lawsuit against you to reclaim the home. If you respond to the court documents that will be sent to you before any hearing, you can appear at the hearing and reason with the judge, instead of with the bank. Your 35 years of history with the bank and perfect payment history of the mortgage, combined with demonstrated ability to keep on paying, is what would count here. It would also be important to stress that this is not just a house, it is your only HOME, and you have invested in it financially and emotionally.

This is where that strange clause in your mortgage that seems to make your LOC "unsecured" could be undone. It was put there to bully you, in the hopes that you wouldn't realize you can challenge it.

Quebec has maintained this judicial process for foreclosure in order to prevent the banks from having too much power over people's homes.

If you can possibly pay for a short consultation, it might be worthwhile to talk to an insolvency lawyer about this. They will have all the details, and will know more about whether that strange mortgage clause could hold water. I bet it can't, and I hope you will be able to fight it.

Best wishes,
~Wendy

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jules123

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Re: Not sure what to do.
« Reply #37 on: January 26, 2014, 11:34:56 AM »
Hi Wendy,
Thank you for your reply and your input.  My trustee did tell me that the clause would not hold water in court, so I think if it comes to that, I will see what I can do.  He also advised me to speak with a lawyer on this clause, especially since I was not at the notaries when the mortgage was signed.  I signed a power of attorney at the bank,as my bank manager said it was a convenience that they offered their good clients. Also being with them for 35 years, the last thing I thought was that they would try to screw me, boy, was I naive!!  :o Hopefully things will work out, I have to be positive.  This is my home, not just a house as you put so eloquently!   and you are absolutely spot on,  it is my home.
I will keep everyone posted.  Thanks again for your reply.
Jules

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jules123

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Re: Not sure what to do.
« Reply #38 on: February 09, 2014, 11:00:06 AM »
update,  I spoke with my trustee and he said that the majority of my creditors have accepted the proposal.  However the bank has yet to respond.  Also what I find odd or disturbing is that the bank continues to calculate interest on the debt and from my understanding once a CP is filed, interest stops being calculated immediately.   This is not giving me a good feeling that the bank is going to accept the CP.  We have to wait till mid march for the 45 days anyways, but what do you suspect the bank will do?  I am continuing to pay the mortgage and the LOC that is secured by the mortgage.  I am not paying the Visa or the other LOC which was unsecured, however that clause in my mortgage seems to state otherwise. 
Please let me know your thoughts.  Thanks in advance
Jules

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TreeFrog

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Re: Not sure what to do.
« Reply #39 on: February 09, 2014, 03:15:33 PM »
Hi Jules,

When I filed my CP, most creditors stopped calculating interest and sending statements immediately. However, a couple of accounts continued to do so for a few months, even though the CP had been accepted. In the end, I was still getting statements from one MasterCard well into the first year. I contacted my trustee about that one, and the mail stopped.

Similarly on my credit report, which I looked at a couple of times through my proposal, I saw that interest was still being calculated on some of the balances. Some places just don't shut down the accounts until the CP is complete.

So, it doesn't mean anything that your debt with the bank is still appearing to accrue interest.

From what I understand, with CP, "no response" from a creditor is considered a yes (unless no one responds). If the majority (in dollars) of those who respond, respond in favour, then you're good.

Best wishes,
~Wendy
« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 03:17:05 PM by TreeFrog »

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jules123

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Re: Not sure what to do.
« Reply #40 on: March 08, 2014, 11:20:06 AM »
Hi All,
My trustee called me and I have a meeting Monday morning with him.  He did not say anthing, so I asked him what was going on.  His response was "it's not that bad", but said he would explain everything on Monday.  I have been paying my mortgage and secured line of credit on the house, but the bank has still not stopped charging interest on the visa, and other line of credit I have.  They shut down my  checking account and I got a final statement last week with the write off of the overdraft owing on the account.
I am very nervous about all of this, I wish he would of told me on the phone what was going on.   I will let everyone know the outcome on Monday.  The 45 days are up Monday! 
Jules

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TreeFrog

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Re: Not sure what to do.
« Reply #41 on: March 08, 2014, 08:57:37 PM »
Hi Jules,

Thanks for the update. I think your trustee's "it's not that bad" is a good sign, considering what you were up against. Perhaps there has simply been a counter-proposal asking for a bit higher payment. In any case, I can understand why he didn't want to discuss the whole thing on the phone - it could make for a long phone call.

Let us know how it goes. At least you only have to wait two days to see him.  :)

~Wendy

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jules123

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Re: Not sure what to do.
« Reply #42 on: March 15, 2014, 10:03:13 AM »
Hi,  My proposal was accepted.  The majority of creditors voted yes, only the Scotia Bank voted no, and some did not vote at all, which means they are accepted.  My trustee received a letter from the Scotia Bank indicating that he must remove a certain clause in the proposal, which he said they just did not understand it.  It had to do with the bank having to accept that the unsecured debt was indeed unsecured no matter what clause they snuck into my mortgage documents.    So I keep my house, continue to pay the mortgage and the secured LOC, but everything else owed to the Scotia is part of the proposal.   I have to go see him at the end of the month to sign the documents, give a voided cheque and pay the balance of what is owed for the first month payment. 
To be honest, I thought I would feel much better than I do.  I am really stretched to the limit in my budget and have no extra cash for anything.   On top of this,  I have a law suit pending that I need to pay my lawyer and have no idea how I am going to do this.  The upside to the lawsuit is I stand to receive a substantial amount of money from it, which I will use to pay off the consumer proposal, but in the meantime, as my title says, ...not sure what to do!   
Once again I want to thank everyone for their input and support throughout this.   

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TreeFrog

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Re: Not sure what to do.
« Reply #43 on: March 15, 2014, 06:49:10 PM »
Yay!   :)  That's great news that the proposal was accepted.

You've been through a lot of uncertainty with this, and there are still things to take care of as you say, but this is a very big step.

In short, although you may still be in the thick of things, they are not nearly as thick as they were before.  :)

Best wishes and congratulations on getting this rolling,
~Wendy

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JEC

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Re: Not sure what to do.
« Reply #44 on: March 15, 2014, 10:05:37 PM »
Congratulations Jules for having the Proposal accepted. At least it's a start in the right direction.

You still have issues to deal with....but at least one big issue is behind you. Try to take each problem just one at a time...try not to think about them for 10 minutes a day. You can only do so much and you've taken a huge step with filing the proposal and getting it going. Perhaps set some priorities. Your Proposal is so important right now....you don't want to sabotage its success. The lawyer just might have to wait for his/her money and if you're going to win...then hopefully he/she won't mind waiting....

Dwell on the success of the Proposal...it's gone through, it's a good thing, it will make your life so much more stress-free.

Good Luck and again, congratulations!!

JEC

 

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